Unpacking Representation of Women in Aviation | REPLAY

Hey, Katie, in the flights you've taken in the last few years, how many times do you think you've noticed a woman identifying pilot, boarding the plane or making those in flight announcements?

I think most of the flights that I've been on have been men.

I've never actually seen the pilots getting onto my plane, but I usually hear the voice.

No, I don't know.

I don't go to my gate that early.

I think I just go to like, go get a drink somewhere or like, bop around and walk around and try to get my steps in before I sit down for hours on end.

But mostly over, over the speakers in the plane.

I've hear.

I've heard mostly men.

Yeah, so have I. I think I've had maybe one in my entire lifetime of flying.

Yeah.

Well, this is older data, but I'm going to quote it anyways.

And it's been reported that less than 1% in the US are black women.

This is older data, but I'm bringing it up because this month we are doing a re release of an episode we published.

Ooh, quite some time ago.

I can't actually Remember when.

No, we published this ages ago.

Really?

Yeah.

Look at us go over 100 episodes.

So, yeah, this is a re release of our episode with Joy Schweitzer.

She is part of that 1%, and she joins us on this episode to unpack the ins and outs of what it takes to become a pilot, especially as a black woman.

And she also talks a bit about the state of representation in the sky in general.

Yeah, so we just.

We had a guest fall through this month.

We didn't have time to source a new person to step in, so we decided let's release one of our older episodes.

That deserves more love.

So this is the one we're bringing to you and we hope that you all enjoy it.

When I think about my own experiences as a passenger on flights, I realize I can't think of any single time that I noticed a woman identifying pilot boarding the plane or making those in flight announcements.

This is because the aviation industry has basically forever been white and dominated by men.

What's more is that there isn't much diversity amongst the women who actually are pilots.

Joy Schweitzer is part of that 1%.

She's a commercial airline pilot and athlete, and she's also known for her appearance on the reality TV show the Molecular.

Today we're chatting with Joy about her journey into aviation, the barriers that Black women are facing in the industry, and how those barriers should be addressed and overcome.

Okay, so this is your reminder that if you aren't already subscribed to the show, then go ahead and hit the Follow button right now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or your favorite podcast app because we have so many more episodes coming this season and trust me, you're going to like them.

Also, you can DM us or even email us anytime.

All of our contact info is in the show.

Notes Erin so an exciting update has come out as of June 1st of this year that Delta is developing the new first of its kind airline seat that allows wheelchair users to stay in their chairs, which is a very, very exciting thing for you and I to hear about.

And also they're in collabor collaboration with Air for All, which was on Chris was on the show last season.

Hey, that's awesome news.

Very exciting.

So these seats are exactly what he was telling us about.

They are a special kind of design seat that folds up and then your power wheelchair or regular wheelchair can just kind of pop right in and clip in.

So very exciting news.

I am so pumped to hear about this.

Don't really have any other details.

I think it's still kind of like in the works to create sort of a concept chair.

So it hasn't really been implemented just yet.

But to see like a major airline like Delta working with Air for All already and like kind of working on the prototype is like very, very encouraging and like way overdue.

So big exciting news.

Yeah, love to see it.

Some progress is better than no progress.

Exactly.

I hope they're speedy about it because like you say, it's long overdue.

I'd be curious to know if this will be rolled out like on a broad scale like every single flight, or if they'll do the shitty thing and only only provide it on some flights.

This is what it says in this article from Insider.

So it says they're working on a prototype that would be officially debuted at the Aircraft interiors expo on June 6th.

So that was quite a while ago, but the seat would still need to be certified and tested before making its way onto the plane cabin.

So we'll see how much kind of bureaucracy happens in between of the prototype to actually implementing it on the plane.

And obviously we know that there's a decent chunk of money involved in making that happen.

But yeah, hopefully this is good news and we see some good stuff happening.

Maybe we'll have to have like Mayan back on the show because she travels a lot and there's a probably pretty high likelihood that if this was to happen that she would likely be one of the users to first experience it.

So if it does happen, we will stay tuned and see if she ends up ever having this experience and maybe catching up with her.

Yeah, I'd love to know what the experience is like.

So we should definitely check in with her once we know that these are out.

I'm curious what she would have to say about like how much confidence this gives her about flying.

Like maybe it'll make her feel a renewed confidence or maybe this is just like one little thing that might help a bit but like there's still a lot of space for many things to go wrong if you're flying in a wheelchair.

So yeah, I'm curious her thoughts there.

Yeah, because the, I mean the seat is one piece of progress, but the bathroom is another that still needs to be figured out because we know that even able bodied folks can barely fit into an airplane.

Airplane washroom.

So yeah, we'll see what happens about that.

Especially with long haul flights.

Like if you're traveling to Japan, I don't know what someone in a wheelchair is going to do about the bathroom situation.

So again, this is the first step, but more to come.

And also the whole airport experience.

Yes, the whole airport experience.

Which as we learned is also a huge problem.

Yeah, I mean if anyone's listening and they're curious about this because we have done a whole episode about this with Mayan and with Chris from Air4All.

So I think it was episode 87.

It's called why can't wheelchairs roll onto planes.

One more thing I noticed in this insider article which we will post in the show notes as well.

No window seat.

Oh, okay.

I mean this is off topic but now I need to know, are you a window seat person?

Oh, I'm not immediately.

Yes, I am a window seat person.

I.

So many people are.

I'm not.

I love of you.

Like I love looking at the window.

Like I, I don't know, I just love it.

The only thing I like about the window seat is sometimes I can hold.

Okay, so if it's a short flight, yes, window seat.

But if I'm flying like through the night over an ocean I know I'm not going to be looking out the window, so I just want to be in the aisle because I hate sitting for a long time.

As you know, I have a standing desk.

Like, I cannot sit for long periods of time.

So when you're in the aisle, I like it because I can get up and walk around whenever I want without having to bother anyone.

And I get very in my head about like, waking someone else, someone up to get up even to go to the bathroom.

I have, like, held my pee for so long on flights because I'm so nervous to ask someone if I can get up and go to the bathroom.

And so for that reason, I am a aisle seat person.

Well, it sounds like we would be perfectly paired together on an airplane, then we would be.

For people who maybe don't go on airplanes that often and are just kind of listening to this podcast for like travel inspo and like, some advice or whatever, I thought it was a good idea to book the seats at the very front of the row, very, very front, because, you know, it's easy access off the plane, it's more leg room, that kind of thing.

I recently booked them for our trip to Portugal when we went.

Mark and I went last year.

And so basically the little TV screens that you get, they are not attached to the wall in front of you.

They're attached to this big arm that comes up from between the seats and then comes up in front of you.

So if you want to like, get up and go to the bathroom, you have to like, tuck it away.

And it's kind of a whole ordeal.

And.

But especially if you are sitting beside someone who is not super tech savvy or like, just doesn't really get how things.

Basically we sat beside this lady who I could just tell, like, so we.

When we got to the airport, we had to get on a shuttle to get bring us to the plane.

And on the shuttle, this lady was talking people's ears off, just chatting, chatting, chatting, chatting.

And I spotted her and I was like, something in the universe told me she was gonna sit beside me.

I just knew it.

We get on the plane and lo and behold, this lady has the window seat beside me.

And she couldn't figure out how to get her screen up, so I had to help her get her screen up.

And like, I don't mind being a nice, like, helpful citizen, but in that moment, like when you're in the travel zone, especially when you're on an airplane, like, I find it, most people end up in like a very isolated type of, like, existence.

They just, like, want to get on the plane and get off and not talk to anybody and just do their own thing.

So she.

She couldn't figure out her arm.

I had to help her.

Help her out with the.

The TV arm.

And then also, when you're sitting in the very front, you need to stow your bags overhead instead of in front of the seat in front of you, because obviously there's no seat in front of you.

So there's.

Right before you take off, your bag has to go overhead, and then during the flight, you can obviously take it down.

But she did not get the memo on this, even though people were walking around telling everybody to put their stuff overhead.

So Mark and I had already done that, but she didn't get the memo until too late, and then she had to, like, walk by.

She basically kept walking by us, like, over and over again.

Your ultimate fear about having the window seat, she was doing.

She was doing all of these things.

She kept getting up in the plane and walking around and didn't know the rules.

And I don't know what my big rant is about this lady, but just know if you're sitting in the front, front row of the airplane, you have responsibilities as a traveler.

You need to sit the heck down.

You have to stow your luggage ahead, and you need to figure out how to use that arm.

And if you're not prepared for these responsibilities, then don't book that front row.

That's.

That's my message to you, Katie.

I wish you had consulted me, because I could have told you this.

I could have told you this.

Row two.

It's all about row two.

I didn't think it was something to consult about.

I never would have guessed.

You don't know what you don't know.

You know, I mean, I guess, like, the nice thing is you have, like, the most leg room, but.

Yeah.

Yeah, I always go for, like, row two to six is, like, the sweet spot, I would say.

All right, well, are you ready to chat with Joy?

Let's do it.

Hi, Joy.

I'm excited to chat with you because I realized We've made over 80 episodes of this podcast, which is about travel, and we have never spoken with a pilot.

And that seems wild to me now because pilots are so integral to, like, all things travel.

Yes.

I'm so happy to be here, and I can't wait to share a little part of me and my favorite thing to do in the world, which is.

Or one of my favorite things to do in the world, which is travel.

In my opinion, I'm biased, but I think that I have the best job in the world.

Oh, I think you probably do.

I'm not going to lie.

I kind of regret not thinking more about becoming a pilot myself, but this is a story for another time.

But yeah, I wanted to ask, what inspired you to become a pilot?

I was always such an adventurous kid.

My parents took note of it, and my dad would look at my mom and say, why does she have a notepad in her hand?

Looking up in the sky 24 7, it was easy to know that I had an interest in aircrafts.

And I would stare for hours, it seemed like, at airplanes, and write down all of my observations.

So one day my dad finally looked at my mom and said, you know, let's take her to the flight line.

So, yay, dad.

He is a retired Air Force guy and always around airplanes.

And so he would take my siblings and I to the flight line and put us behind the controls of big military aircrafts.

And I was so intrigued by all of the buttons and switches and how an airplane can stay up in the.

In the air and fly.

So fast forward a few years later.

You know, I'm this kid who has a passion for.

For flying, obviously, But I ended up going to college or something else.

And after I graduated from school, you know, still strongly had a passion for.

For airplanes and wanted to become a pilot.

And so I asked my parents, I said, look, you know, I know I just graduated from school, but I want to be a pilot, and can we make this happen?

Can I go to flight school?

So my mom, in all of her wisdom, says flight school is very, very expensive.

Why don't you become a flight attendant to kind of get your feet wet in the industry and figure out if it's something that you really want to do?

Because the schedules are rigorous.

I said, okay, I'll give it a shot.

So I became a flight attendant with a major airline, and I did just that.

I got my feet wet, and I really enjoyed the schedules.

I met incredible people along the way.

I joined various organizations like Women in Aviation, Organization of Black Aerospace Professionals, and networked with people, and they pointed me in the right direction.

And I ended up making my way from the back of the airplane to the front of the airplane.

And it wasn't an easy feat.

I would drop most of my trips and fly on my days off, pretty much.

And I was always tired.

But when you really want something in life, you're going to go after it with your mind, body and soul.

And that's exactly what I did.

And here I am today.

I put in the work.

It was very expensive.

I ended up moving back home with my parents for a little bit.

I even rode a bike to and from flight school to save money, saved up enough money and put myself through school.

Could you describe sort of the experience of being a commercial airline pilot?

I think like, especially we see like depictions in movies and on screen of it.

But what is it, what is it really like?

What is a typical working day like for you?

A typical working day for me would be commuting to my base, which is Miami.

I live in Atlanta, so I'll commute to Miami.

When I get to the airport, I'll have lunch.

And by the time I'm finished eating, answering emails, speaking to my husband and son, it's time to, to go off to my gate and get ready for my flight.

So, you know, when I get to the gate, I'll see the flight attendants, the pilot, and we'll establish a rapport and we'll talk about our day.

You know, sometimes we're with the same flight attendants for a day or two, sometimes not.

Maybe it'll only be for just one leg.

And we'll talk about all that.

We'll talk about the weather and after we breathe kinda in the jet bridge or on the aircraft sometimes, then it's time to, to go into the aircraft and build my nest.

And what that entails is taking out my iPad and setting it up, adjusting my seat and setting up the flight plan.

And then we figure out the pilot, the captain and I figure out who's going to fly first.

Nine times out of 10, he takes the first leg and then I'll fly the second leg and then I'll go down and I'll do a walk around.

And what I'm checking there is to make sure the aircraft is in an airworthy condition.

So you never want to walk around an airplane and see fluid coming out of an airplane.

You know, that's, that's bad.

Number one with flying, it's, it's all about safety.

You want to make sure you get yourself and your passengers from point A to point B in a safe manner.

So after I do the walk around and everything checks out fine, the captain and I talk about the flight.

So I call it, I have an acronym for ABT or Always be Talking.

So we talk about everything and once we brief, will push back from the gate, taxi to the Runway and then it's time for liftoff.

And that's the fun part for me.

Taking off and landing.

It's.

I've been doing this total.

Somebody asked me today, I was like, I've been doing this for about 13 and a half, 14 years, and I still get excited to take off and land, especially land.

My heart, you know, it's like the adrenaline is pumping.

And to make it easier to understand.

For a person that isn't familiar with navigating in the air, in the sky, it's similar to hopping in your car and going down the freeway and respecting, you know, the.

The speed restrictions.

And it's the same thing with being in the air.

You know, we have speed restrictions, we have altitude constraints sometimes.

And you kind of want to look at it like that.

Like you're driving your car on the freeway, and if you're trying to get to point A to point B, you're looking at a gps.

We have this exact same thing in an airplane, and they're called waypoints.

So we're flying from waypoint to waypoint to get to our destination.

Okay, gotcha.

I actually wanted to bring this up because I was recently in Belize, and while I was there, I had to take a small charter flight, and a local in the town I was in told me that if I asked to sit up front with the pilot, that they might say yes.

So this is a hot tip for anyone going to Belize.

Just, like, go to the desk and ask.

Because I did.

And they were like, sure.

And so I found myself, like, sitting in the front of this tiny little plane next to the pilot.

And it was such an experience because I saw what the pilot does to fly the plane.

So, yeah, one of my biggest takeaways was how much of the flight seemed to be automated, because I thought he would be engaged the entire flight.

But once we were up in the air, he kind of, like, set all these buttons and knobs and stuff, and then he was just like, like, chatting with me and writing things down in his notebook.

And this was surprising to me.

Is this like a new innovation in flying?

Has it always been this way?

Or is this just like new technology?

You know, with anything like a cell phone or computer, a television, Those electronic devices are always getting upgraded.

So it's similar to aircrafts.

You have flight computers that are getting upgraded.

Or I was thinking, for a company like this, they probably had a budget to where they had.

He probably had a glass cockpit with an autopilot, and he could just turn on the autopilot and fly, you know, with the airplane flying itself.

I will say, when I first started out in my flying Days.

Oh my gosh, I wish I would have had that.

I flew the antiquated way with analogs and nothing was digitized at all.

So I had a knee board and would take my own notes, you know, and then I had a map on my, on my other leg and I would fly with my antiquated system of, you know, analog flying and flying from VOR to vor, which is if I were to do that today, I probably need, you know, a couple days to kind of refresh on that kind of flying.

When I started to advance in my career and I became a commercial airline pilot, I saw a glass cockpit for the first time.

So everything is right there in front of you.

I don't need a knee board, I don't need a map on my thigh.

Everything is set up for your viewing and it's user friendly and you don't have to do much.

When I went from flying with a six pack is what we call it, instruments, and then moving to a glass cockpit, it took me a while to kind of just take it all in.

I'm like, this is really cool.

And of course you go to training in the simulator to learn how to fly a glass cockpit.

But that's awesome.

First and foremost, it's amazing that you got a chance to fly up there with him and witness all of that.

Maybe this is a silly question, but I'm very curious because I was wondering why there was only one pilot in this plane and they had this extra seat up front when clearly, like at some point they may have had two pilots up there.

And I know that commercial flights, like usually do have two pilots.

Why is that?

And why would some flights only need one?

So it's absolutely vital for two pilots to sit in an airplane together.

In the airline transport professional world, because they're larger airplanes.

It could have been a smaller airplane where you don't need two pilots because of the weight of the aircraft.

So the bigger the airplane, the more advanced the airplane, the many, you know, the more passengers you have.

And you want two pilots up there for safety reasons.

And I'll kind of break that down a little bit too.

You have what's called a pm, a pilot monitoring and a pf, a pilot flying.

So we split the duties and the duties are well defined.

The pilot flying, of course, flies the airplane from point A to point B.

And the pilot monitoring talks on the radios.

The pilot monitoring is monitoring the flight instruments, the flight parameters, to make sure engines are looking good, the oil, the pressure, making sure that the flight is doing the airplane is doing what it's supposed to be doing.

So yeah, you absolutely 100% want two pilots.

In the commercial airline world, there have been cases recently, you know, I read about the captain passing away on takeoff.

It broke my heart.

You know, the co pilot, the first officer knew exactly what to do so he took over the airplane and landed it safely.

And so that's why you want two people up there.

Yeah, actually like I was also wondering because I've taken flights that were like 18 hours long and wondered like, do pilots sleep?

Like are you awake that entire time or do you get to take a nap?

That is a good question because we do have long demanding days and those are transcon flights.

So your wide bodies are flying those long international 10 hour, 15, 18 hour flights and you have three people up there.

So you have a person sitting in the back and then you have your captain and your first officer sitting up front and you do rotate.

So on a long flight you talk about the brakes and how you're going to divide it between the three people.

You usually do this before the airplane takes off after takeoff.

So three people must be in the flight deck for the takeoff and landing.

When you get in cruise, usually the third pilot will go and take a break for three to four hours and then once he or she comes back, then the first officer goes back and so you rotate it that way.

But yes, pilots must be fit to fly number one.

And so resting and taking those much needed breaks for a long flight like that is needed.

Popping in here quick, Joy, because you just made me think about just how demanding and exhausting this job seems.

Does your body know what time it is anymore or what day it is?

Like how, how is your body dealing with kind of covering the global landscape in different time zones?

That is a really good question.

The body is smart.

My body knows when I'm home.

My body knows when I am flying a transcon flight.

And what I do, I try to make sure that I'm resting well at home, I'm working out, I'm eating a clean diet.

Because if I don't, if, if one thing is lacking, for instance my sleep, then I'm going to suffer.

You know, when I get to my overnight, let's just say I get done with a red eye in California.

If I didn't sleep well two nights ago, then I have that sleep debt and it's going to be difficult for me to go to sleep.

So I have a system.

So when I get to the hotel, I'll spray, you know, my bed with a Lavender.

I'll take a hot shower.

I'll wind down.

I'll read a little bit, and I'll take maybe like 3 milligrams of melatonin.

Only on a red eye flight, just to make sure that my body knows.

Look, you're going to bed at kind of a weird hour, but you need to get to sleep.

And of course, when I get home, the husband and son are very gracious and they allow mom to catch up on rest if I didn't sleep all that well.

That's key.

Aaron, you're.

It's making me think of the Bachelorette.

We are reality TV fans.

And what the recent Bachelorette was a pilot.

And the whole thing was like, can you be a good husband to me when I come home?

Yes.

I love that.

She's so cute.

So, so glad to hear that you have found a husband and a partner that will support your pilot dreams, because that is clearly so clear.

And the last thing we need is a pilot who's sleepy.

Oh, exactly.

Very glad to hear it.

Yeah.

We keep ourselves healthy.

If one pilot is feeling not the best, we can call our company and say, I don't feel fit to fly.

And the company knows exactly what to do.

We come off of a trip and they'll replace that pilot with someone else.

So we take safety very serious.

We take being fit to fly our bodies very, very serious.

I wanted to talk a little bit about the aviation landscape mainly because it's for a very long time been white and male dominated, especially in the field of pilots.

Even when I think about my own experiences as a passenger on flights, I've realized that I can't think of not any single time that I noticed a woman identifying pilot, boarding the plane or making announcements.

And I was curious about this.

So I was like, okay, I gotta check the data to know for sure.

What's more is that there isn't much diversity among the women who actually are pilots.

So, yeah, Given all this, what does it mean to you to be one of the few black women pilots in such a white and male dominated industry?

I love this question and thanks for asking.

It means for me that hard work paid off.

You know, it's a dream that I saw through and I'm grateful for my parents for Planting that seed when I was a little girl and saying, you can be anything you want to be.

I definitely earned it.

I wasn't handed anything.

It was hard work.

I made a plan.

When I was a flight attendant.

I remember being in the back of the airplane flying L2.

That's what we called it.

I took a pen and I wrote on the back of a seat manifest exactly how I would see this dream through.

And I remember writing, finances, question mark.

Who do I need to call?

Question mark.

I met this person, and should I call this person on this day?

So I made sure that I did everything that I wrote on that piece of paper.

And back then, I didn't know that I was practicing what I call.

I made a little acronym called my four Ps, put it to pen, Picture yourself doing it, Put it to play, and then be purposeful.

So I did all of that, and I didn't even know I was doing it back then.

I started doing this two years ago because I needed to get more organized.

And so little did I know that these four Ps, writing it down, picturing yourself in the aircraft, putting it, and actually did that.

I would take pictures of myself in my flight attendant uniform and take pictures of myself and make it a screensaver and look at that picture every day and tell myself, you're going to be there one day.

And then I put it to play.

So as I mentioned earlier, I ended up moving back home with my parents to save money.

I ended up going out for scholarships.

I found the funding to make it happen, you know, saving money, taking a little bit of money out of, you know, my savings and taking out some flight loans, which I'm grateful that I have paid them off to this day.

And then my last P. Purposeful.

So I had an intent, and I was very intentional about everything I set my mind to.

So I think those components there is what builds a successful human vehicle.

And that vehicle is going to be what will drive yourself to success.

And also, I really like this question because I talked a lot about myself, but is paying it forward.

I had people to help me.

I had women that I looked up to in this industry to sit down with me and help me make a plan.

Men, too, very instrumental in my life.

And I want to be that same for somebody else.

And I am that same.

You know, I have mentees, I have people that I help, that I encourage, and I love it.

And that's what it's about.

It's about helping the next female pilot, and especially women of color pilots, make it to where they want to be, make it to your level.

So it gives me great joy to give back.

Oh, I love it.

The four P's are like a blueprint for manifesting, and I'm going to, like, fully start using these in my own life.

It's a game changer.

I swear by them.

So there is such an extreme lack of diversity among pilots in the US So I'm curious if you could speak to what barriers that you experienced as you were going on this journey of, like, achieving this goal to be a black woman pilot.

What are sort of the main barriers that you faced or you've seen other women facing and how can people be supported in overcoming these barriers?

Finances was a biggie for me.

Flight school is very expensive.

And when I was going through flight school, there weren't as many scholarships as there are now, which I'm grateful that there are.

There's so many scholarships out there.

There's various organizations that young women can join to get these scholarships and, you know, excellent mentorship.

So finances and exposure.

So you definitely want to see yourself represented in the industry.

And so as long as I see an upward trend in my industry, I'm happy with that.

I'm always getting young girls excited about in the airport, and when they come up to the flight deck, I'm like, you know, have you ever this, you know, has this ever crossed your mind?

This is really fun.

This is a really.

This is a great career.

Like, you get paid to go on vacation.

You get paid a lot of money to go on vacation, especially if they're, you know, in their teens and how teens nowadays are.

They're too cool for school.

I'll say, look, I was in Boston yesterday in a winter coat, but you know, where I'll be today?

I'll be in Nassau, you know, in a bikini, on the beach, drinking a mocktail and getting paid, you know.

But with any profession, with anything, you are going to make sacrifices.

And I think sometimes what makes some women maybe hesitant is the amount of time that you're away from home.

And in the beginning, I was away from home.

It was difficult.

But now that I am working for my dream company, I have a great schedule.

I had weekends off, and I'm able to take my son to baseball and soccer and bid around that.

I would encourage any young girl to pursue a career as a pilot.

Yeah, I love that.

I've talked with other women on this show about breaking into industries that are dominated by men.

And something that I've always noticed is a recurring theme is that it's hard to break into a field or an industry when you can't find yourself represented there already.

And so it's nice to hear that, like, you take the time to talk to young women, especially young black women, and show them that this is a possibility for them.

Yeah.

And, you know, it's not just me.

My colleagues at my company, they do it as well.

We took a trip to LaGuardia a couple months ago and oh, my God, this was such a powerful experience.

The children were about 12.

They were 12, 13 years old, and they were so excited about the industry.

So we were able to present them with Mattel sponsored it.

We were able to present them with Barbie dolls.

And they got to see themselves.

You know, they were minority girls and boys, and they got.

They looked at me and my colleagues and they saw themselves in us.

And I loved it.

I loved every minute of it.

Oh, that's so good to hear.

Another thing I wonder about is, I imagine going to flight school and even just like your daily experience of being a pilot can be challenging sometimes because you might be the only woman or the only black woman in class or sitting in the plane.

Is this something you've experienced and is it hard to navigate?

Do you experience, like, microaggressions ever?

Or would you say, like, people are really, really supportive?

I've experienced.

I've experienced both.

Just like with any profession, you're going to have microaggressions, you're going to have, you know, a little bit of bigotry, but that's fine.

If I could go back and tell my younger self anything, it would be to be secure in yourself, know your worth, know your power, you're competent, you're capable, you can do anything you put your mind to.

You make the haters your motivators.

And, you know, and when you walk into a SIM lesson or a ground school and you know your stuff and you fly that airplane like the back of your hand, no one can say anything to you.

It hasn't been a lot of it, which I'm grateful for.

But, you know, in the beginning, I did hear of remarks when I was trying to pursue becoming a pilot as a flight attendant, and I let that be fire up under me, and I'm like, you know what?

I'm going to make it happen.

They're going to see me one day on tv, they're going to see me on social media, and they're going to see, they're going to say, you know, I have to put my foot, you know, in my mouth.

She made it happen.

So never let anybody discourage you.

And that would be my words of wisdom to myself as a kid and also to the, to the next girl behind me, is to be secure.

A pilot is a pilot.

That's such good advice.

And I guess with like, every woman who joins the industry, like, it'll only get easier and easier as time goes on as, like, more women become part of it.

I wanted to talk a little bit about solutions.

Obviously, lack of diversity is a systemic issue in a lot of industries.

And there's a lot of nuance to this problem that I think is really hard to come up with.

Like a totally fail safe blueprint for creating more diversity.

But as a woman who is experiencing this firsthand, what in your mind are some important steps that could be taken to help diversify aviation?

Specifically?

My company is excellent and inspiring and making sure women of color pilots are represented at local high schools and colleges.

So I am grateful that I'm with a company that's diverse.

We believe in diversity.

And I think that word of mouth, exposing parents, exposing your kids at a young age to airplanes and to aviation STEM programs.

My son, as mentioned, you know, mom, I think I kind of want to do what you're doing one day.

And so I'm taking him to museums, to aviation museums.

He takes STEM classes.

And I'm trying to get my nephews and my friend's friends because I will say pilots produce pilots.

I've noticed that if I'm flying with, like, people where their kids are going to flight school and they're assisting their kids and making that dream happen.

So, yeah, it's just getting your family, the kids in your family excited about it and doing what my company is doing, going to high schools and colleges and inspiring and getting kids motivated and talking about the industry.

Also, there are various organizations like Sisters of the Skies and Organization of Black Aerospace Professionals, I think I mentioned them earlier, and women in aviation that are excellent avenues as well.

So they are out there.

And I will say I am super excited about a book that I'm writing.

It's to get kids excited about my industry.

You know, you, you have kids that are excited about making dances on TikTok and, you know, teenagers excited about other things like entrepreneurship.

Why not write a book and get kids excited about it and make it look cool, you know, because it is cool.

It's a very cool Industry.

I'm very, very positive, and I know that the needle is moving in the right direction and more people of color, more women are joining my incredible industry.

It's interesting that you mentioned that pilots produce pilots, because this is something I've noticed as well.

And I was thinking about this, and I think, like, that it could be.

Because the role of a pilot is pretty unseen.

You don't really see pilots on your flight.

Like, you will maybe see them when you board the plane, but really they're just this, like, voice that comes over the speaker occasionally.

Yes, I think this is why I found.

Yeah, I think this is why, like, that flight I took in Belize, like, had such an impact on me because it was like, wow.

Like, I've never seen this before, even though I've sat on a plane countless times.

It's interesting to think about it in that context.

And then I think, also because travel is such a financial privilege, like, many young girls and women might not have the chance to even ever take a flight.

So the world of aviation can just be like this unknown thing to so many people.

And that's correct, because when I was a kid, the reason why I didn't pay.

Pursue it wholeheartedly as a kid is because I, I never.

I took trips as a kid, but I never saw.

I'd be in the back and, you know, you'll.

You'll hear the voice, and there'll be times where I would go on the flight deck and be inquisitive.

But most kids are, or, you know, young adults are in the back and they.

They hear the pilot, but they don't see the pilot.

So it's just this thing where you see airplanes, but who's.

Who's behind the airplane, you know, and it's.

It's definitely my job and duty as a woman to get my industry out there and prove to.

To.

To young boys and girls that it's just as cool as, you know, getting an MBA and studying psychology and, you know, and, you know, engineering.

It's awesome.

It's freaking awesome.

I really love how you've been putting, like, so much effort, yourself into changing this.

I found you through TikTok and was super excited to come across your content because I hadn't seen any pilot representation on TikTok before.

And then also through your appearance in the Netflix show the Mole.

Yeah, I think it's really great how you're using these sort of untraditional avenues to bring more visibility to especially black women pilots.

Yeah, for sure.

I, I love social media at first I would shy away from it because I'm like, I don't really want to put myself out there, but I can't think about myself.

I can't be selfish.

I have to share with others and I have to let impressionable young girl who may be kind of like, I don't know what I really want to do, but I'm adventurous.

I don't want the 9 to 5.

And why not make a cool TikTok video about being a pilot?

You know, social media is a excellent tool nowadays.

In today's society, things are at your fingertips.

So using TikTok and Instagram, I love Instagram and just sharing my awesome career with the world is what makes me happy.

And I've gotten hundreds of DMs and emails and I try to respond to every single one, especially when I got off of the show.

Young people reaching out to me about pursuing a career as a pilot and I try to steer them in the best way I know how.

I'll ask questions and, you know, see what they're studying and just tell them to go for it.

All it is sometimes is googling your local flight school, taking an introductory flight to find out if you are even, you know, bitten by the flying bug.

You may not even like it, but you may love it.

And if you love it, make it happen.

I'm actually wondering now because I'm thinking about this, like to go to flight school, you don't need prerequisites, you don't need a college degree or high school.

What kind of education like is required to go into it?

Yeah, so when I.

And they recently.

Major airlines recently changed this after Covid and a bunch of pilots retiring.

And then they're hurting for pilots, but they've dropped, I believe every major has dropped the college degree.

Now when I was going through, you needed a college degree, you need it, but you didn't need a degree in aviation.

I would encourage a young person to start as early as 16 because you need a.

Or you have to be 16 years old to acquire a private pilot's license.

So the earlier the better.

If you start at 16 and by the time you are 25, you're a captain for a.25, 28, I'll say you're captain for a major airline.

You're making the big bucks.

You have awesome seniority.

You can retire a multi millionaire.

You can retire like barely going to work and making so much money if you start at a young age.

Because seniority is everything in this industry.

Yeah.

You know, now that you're saying that I had a friend who was a flight attendant for Emirates and she was saying that to me because at the time I was like intrigued by this job.

So I had lots of questions.

And she was saying it's good to start, like when you're really young and your body is better prepared to take on the difficult hours because as your career progresses, it gets easier.

She was like, you need to, to put in your time and then the schedules become much more doable.

Yes, she's 100% right.

Okay, I have two kind of fun questions before we wrap up.

First, I wanted to ask if there are any little known facts about flying or about planes or about being a pilot that people don't know that you want to share with us.

You know, I heard my really good friend, I call him my brother, say this the other day he was giving a speech and he's a captain for a major airline.

And in his speech he said, planes take off into the wind.

So whatever you think is a setback is actually a setup for your success.

And that speaks, you know, volumes.

Go after it.

Do it.

Don't let anything stop you.

Lastly, I think you said you're based in Atlanta, correct?

I live in Atlanta.

Based in Miami, baby.

Miami.

Okay, cool.

I haven't been yet.

I need to go.

Oh, you need to go.

Yes.

Yeah.

Which brings me to my next question.

Can you tell us an insider tip for Miami?

So restaurants must sees tours, like anything that you think a visitor should absolutely do when they come to your city?

Yes, definitely.

Go to the beach.

That's a given.

I like Wynwood.

That's W Y N W O O D Wynwood.

And it's a neighborhood that's swingy, great restaurants and, you know, music culture.

They have an Art Basel every year.

That's really cool.

And you cannot go wrong with any restaurants.

If you like Jamaican food, you know, any Caribbean food, you can find it in Miami.

I don't have a favorite restaurant because I, I'm such a foodie that I don't want to say I like this restaurant and then my other restaurants feel bad.

That's fair.

But yeah, there's so many incredible restaurants and in Miami and Pompano beach as well.

I did a lot of training out of Pompano Beach, Florida.

Just go and take a boat tour and just soak up some rays.

I want to be sponsored by a bathing suit company because I'm always on the beach.

So if there's any affiliates that are looking for folks.

But yeah, that's what I'd say.

Well, Joyce, thank you so much.

Before we let you go, can I just get you to share where people can find you if they want to learn more about you?

Oh yes.

I am the Joyce Weitzer on Instagram and on TikTok.

I am Joy J O. I ride high and my email address because you can email me.

I will respond most emails.

I still have a couple that I'm, you know, that I'm working on but I will be responding to those emails.

But email me@joyright high.fit and gmail.com.

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